Yeah, again we seem to be on the same page at the same time although we reached it currently from different fandoms.

In the POI fandom I'm so desperate for input that I've started journal surfing again, something I haven't done in a long time. In the process, I've ran across a whole slew of "they're only writing slash for the basest, most shallow of reasons."

I even saw a couple of the old "why do they have to pollute our lovely fandom?" posts and all slash being described as pornography.

Hell, you know me, I honestly don't care if fen want to write slash just for the sexeh times, more power to them, but I find I resent the assumption that I want to write slash only because I'm a pervert.

I am a pervert, but that's not why I write slash.

And YES, HELL YES, sometimes the friendship IS the whole fucking point. It's definitely the foundation of every pair I ship.

Bonus rantlet: I've also been bumping in to the "they both have ex-girlfriends in canon so they MUST be straight" -- Bisexuality is apparently a myth so I might not know any unicorns but I know other mythical creatures -- and "I only write canon which is why I write Reese/Carter" which you know, IS NOT CANON! Even if it might be at some point in the future although I doubt it. I even saw the old "slashers hate female characters" which really pisses me off. One of the reasons why I love POI is how brilliant the female characters are I just believe, totally, that Reese and Finch belong together.

Erm... sorry for rambling off course... *slinks off*

You can talk about Reese and Finch here any time. As you know, they are also a pairing I ship, and once again, for all these reasons.

I can't explain why I don't feel the urge to fic for them. Or why the only fic I've read are yours and Jen's (and even then, I have a couple of yours now that I need to be catching up with.) But I certainly don't ship them because I feel the need to have a slash ship. Or because I think they're hot (because I did not come into the show thinking they were attractive at all, and in many ways I still wouldn't say they're my idea of 'hot'.) But do these characters depend upon one another? Do they support one another? Do they have an understanding of each other that is deep and fascinating? Is their failure to communicate and trust on some levels something that interests me and does the promise of that changing engage me? Yes, yes, more yes and hell yes.

Like you, I think, I don't slash everyone even if I can see why others are slashing them. I even *gasp* have several shows/films I adore with a het ship or no ship at all. The *gasp* is because slashers just slash everyone, right? *sigh*

I certainly don't write/read fic for everyone I do slash. Like... I left The Avengers film thinking Bruce/Tony, yep, I can definitely see that, but I haven't read any of the fic and have absolutely no urge to write for them.

The "hot" thing always confounds me too. There are actors I think are hot but I don't feel that way about their characters and vice versa. In the case of Reese and Finch it's definitely the pair of them together rather than the actors' looks. Competency, snark, damaged but not beaten, friendship, trust issues, no one else to rely on... I could go on and on. They are just ticking every box on my list and that's why I ship them and that's why I want to write for them.

So again, I find it bloody annoying that I'm assumed to only be slashing them because I'm all about Part A in to Slot B bay-bee.

Are you following the thing about the girl who started an argument with John Simm on Twitter about Doctor Who?

Edited at 2012-08-16 02:46 pm (UTC)

No, I didn't know about it.

My, people can be thick.

I think this person needs to see a thoroughly researched and professionally put-together presentation complete with photos as to why we ship the ship. *wiiiiiink*

Hah :D But all we'd get is "but to me all of that just shows a really good friendship".

Pah. Whatevs.

Again, yeah, it doesn't matter if this person only wants to take it as friendship. It's totally cool. It's when it becomes "AND IF YOU THINK ANYTHING ELSE YOU'RE WRONG!!! WHINE MOAN COMPLAIN!"

See, I'm often left going "Everyone else ships Sam/Gene, but I can't get into it*", but that doesn't mean I imagine everyone else is faking. I'm aware that other people sometimes see things in a different way. You'd think that would be a fairly basic thing to know.

*I dabbled, but it never really crossed the threshold from "I don't mind that" to "Ooh, I want that!"

Yes. I respect your 'can't get into it'. There are plenty of popular ships I don't see. I don't then assume people are making them up.

And it's not like people shipping a couple of actiony, partnery guys who fight crime together is unheard of.

A lot of the hate seems to come from immature ashes to ashes fans, but its been happening for ages even before A2A so it can't all be blamed on that fandom (although still a large percentage of hate comes from a small minoirity within the a2a fandom), I remember when I told one of my best mates about shipping Sam and Gene she replied with 'Oh, I don't slash characters just for the slash'. I imagine that tumblr person got a bollocking on tumblr for it, but its not the worse, I remember one where the poster was telling people to stop shipping them.

About that girl on twitter, i feel sorry for her, it wasnt the best worded tweet but with a tweet you cant really be eloquent, and its pretty tame compaired to what I would like to say to John Simm somedays, he really is a miserable, ungrateful and rude spoilt child some days

We can't agree about the twitter thing. It's one of these situations where --- John doesn't owe it to anyone to be constantly kind and loving and enthusiastic on his own twitter. He doesn't owe it to the world to be perfection every second of every day. And, sure, maybe that means the consequence is that someone tweets that he's acting like a baby, but he's entitled to that, in his own space. His response, I felt, was pretty classy. I wouldn't have responded myself (or, actually, I might, but I'm a prat), but he must get sick of it. I feel like she was deliberately provoking a rise out of him when she kept responding, so no, I don't feel sorry for her.

Some of us don't have unlimited reserves of gratitude. Sometimes we need to vent. This is why I am surprised he even got into twitter publicly, since I don't think it's a good fit for him. He is a curmudgeonly kind of dude! There's nothing really wrong with that, though.

Ofcourse he doesn't owe it to anyone to be nice all the time, but from the little of his life that I as a fan see he seems to be one of those people that can never be happy, always has something to complain about and is also slightly selfabsorbed and a tiny bit arrogant. He just isn't the type of person I would ever like to be friends with but thats not the problem I have, I feel that you can be all those things and still treat people with respect. I'm not asking him to be perfection but to show a basic amount of respect and decency to his fans - its nothing major, just show the same respect that I could expect any random stranger to show another, I wouldn't speak to someone the way he speaks to some of his fans ever.

He is entitled to his own space but if that is what he wants then why go onto a social networking site that directly encroaches on that space? Also its twitter, you can ignore things, if you dont want to read the messages dont, scroll past, ignore them. In that incident I think his response was classy, and was actually a time when he was being an okay person to his fans. Yeah the girl was being a bit procative, but as you've just said people can't be perfect all the time, she was obviously anoyed and feeling defensive of others at the time and so wasn't in the best frame of mind. I feel it was unfair how the internet treated her, rather than how Simm treated her. I felt that her responses were more of realising she had over stepped a mark, and trying to cover her arse, while still not backing down from what she felt was a valid point - she obviously liked him and felt a bit odd having had a negative interaction with him.

I wasn't even suggesting that he should be greatful to fans, he doesnt owe them anything, he got to where he is out of pure talent, yet I don't feel that gives him the right to intimidate people and treat them badly, especially when they are just being nice (i am talking about fans in general not the girl). People can be anoying and stupid but as fun as it would be to turn around and do a sherlock to them its not fair or right to do so, people deserve a basic amount of respect. There isn't anything wrong with being curmudgeonly but when you act in a certain way you have to be prepared that people will respond to how you treat them, and if you don't treat them nicely you won't get nice responses. You can be curmudgeonly but dont expect everyone to treat you like you are a nice, fun loving guy, people won't be all puppies and rainbows around you if you act like a miserable sod all the time.

Just expanding on what I meant by what I said just so I dont come across as a horrible person XD

I completely agree that it's weird that Simm decided to maintain a public twitter when he does find it difficult to be comfortable with fans asking him questions. I guess --- maybe I missed the part where he was disrespectful and/or horribly rude? I've heard a lot about him being awkward, but not downright mean? (Stating something clearly, if you've had to say it a thousand hundred billionty times, to me, is not being horrible. But then, I am a teacher. It is my raison d'etre.)

I guess my fondness for Simm clouds my judgement. I can relate to him. Yes, I definitely have joked about him being a miserable bugger in the past, and maybe sometimes he needs to lighten up and eat some humble pie --- but I understand his complaining, arrogant ways too. He's not really a 'nice' person (which does not stop him from being a good person), but at least he's honest about that? I respect him in that regard. No, he isn't going to pretend he's all sweetness and light just because society expects him to grin and bear it. Yes, occasionally he will get pissed off and rant. Should he? Probably not. But 'should' and 'must' and expectation can be horribly restricting.

We tend to have these discussions a fair amount, don't we? Usually with you telling me off for my misdeeds! ;) I think your sense of social goodwill is inherently stronger than mine. I am sometimes far too reactionary, far too willing to snark. I'm always trying to balance my kinder nature with my thoroughly fed-up one. While I firmly believe in a basic amount of respect, and tend to attempt to treat everyone with respect, I also think that there's a point where it needs to be earned. That, obviously goes both ways :D

Edited at 2012-08-17 02:49 pm (UTC)

I can't even remember the exact examples, but there have been I think 2-3 times that I feel he has over stepped the mark (but only 1 of them was on twitter). Totally agree it isn't rude to say 'god ive been asked this a bajillion times' but on the other hand the person who is asking it is often quite young and idolizing them.

Maybe living with a person like him makes me less sympathetic, after having a whole day of it a tiny bit from him makes me want to hulk out :P Its fine if he did it occasionally but he does do it a lot, I guess I don't think he is a very good person either, but not because he is a miserable sod. Though having said all this I will get in a huge que and go all wobbly when I meet him, so i obviously don't dispise him XD

I feel awful now, Im not here just to tell you off, sorry if I come across this way. But atleast here you are telling me to be nice and im being the one doing the misdeed. *hugs* sorry if you think im too naggy at you, I dont mean to come across like that